Rand and the Quick Buck Crew
News June 13th, 2007Recently, a controversy has raged about whether Rand Fishkin of SEOMoz should be added to the blacklist of the Quick Buck Crew. The Quick Buck Crew is a site established to out the wost scoundrels of the web – people who scam, cheat and steal from hardworking webmasters like you and me.
The logic behind adding Rand to this list is that he has taken his pagestrength tool, which used to be free, and limited it to one query per day. If you want to make more than one query, you need to pay to become a premium member, which costs $39 per month.
Well, it should go without saying, but frankly the position taken by the Quick Buck crew is asinine. It’s Rand’s tool and Rand’s site – he is free to do whatever he wants with it, even offer cheating wives and upskirt videos. We are fortunate to live in a free country where people have freedom to control their own websties. However, this does need to be said, as currently a poll about this on Digitalpoint shows 11-15 that SEOMoz should be considered a member of the Quick Buck Crew.
However, I think the Quick Buck Crew missed a much more important point, and that is by making people pay to use this tool, Rand has effectively killed the popularity of the tool. When the tool came out, a lot of people, including myself, evangelized the tool and espoused the benefits of using it. I worked hard to make it popular in the directory community and help get it used as a standard in measuring the quality of a directory. I have to admit a certain feeling of betrayal.
Now that the tool is no longer free, new people are not going to be using it. My guess is that in a year’s time, hardly anyone outside the SEOMoz community will even know of its existence. Who’s going to bother paying just to find out what the page strength of a site is?
As well, the tool was excellent linkbait. All around I saw people proudly supporting the SEOMoz tool with a link on their site to SEOMoz proclaiming what their page strength is. However, really – who is now going to pay for the privilege of linking to SEOMoz?
I can imagine that the tool was a resource hog and that may have been one of the larger considerations in requiring premium membership to use it. I would like to think that there would be ways around this. Perhaps Rand could have made the tool open source. Then, many people would have set up sites like seomozpagestrength.avivadirectory.com – reducing the server load and giving SEOmoz further backlinks.
If Google charged for people to find out their pagerank, would PR really be popular today? In fact, PR has become part of the vocabulary of everyday webmasters and plays a large role across the webmaster forums and blogosphere. By defining the language, you control it. While I don’t think that page strength would ever have become as popular as pagerank, coming from a credibile operation like SEOMoz gave it a lot of clout and popularity. But that’s gone now.
I’ve even seen people list the pagestrength of their site when they sell it, along with PR and Alexa. In my opinion, that was a pretty major accomplishment. I think that will disappear though, which is sad because it is such a good metric.
Just to be absolutely clear: it’s not the $39 per month that bothers me. It’s the fact that by charging for the tool, Rand has effectively destroyed the popularity of one of the best metrics around.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:33 am
I completely agree. I made a post on the other blog about the Quick Buck Crew thing, but that was more in reply to the QBC label and their right to charge. On the other hand, like you said, it will become less popular. At least they do allow one free per day. So, maybe it can still hold on. I hope so…
June 13th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I feel you, I haven’t been able to get it to work properly for a good couple of months, just about every post on my directory blog links to it and if people click the links the results never match, if I pay will the tool actually work?
June 13th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
@Dave – If you are a premium member, there’s a “refresh” option which seems to give you another go at getting a corrrect result. It’s still not perfect and for some sites, you just can’t seem to get all the data pulled no matter how many times you refresh.
June 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
So you get a Vegas style of Page Strength tool, you just hit the button till you get jackpot :).
At the moment I am searching for someone to code a much better tool than PS, to be delivered for free and reliably, in 1 year time nobody will remember PS.
June 13th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
@ Ask – good luck with the tool. Rand has (1) an incredible reach and (2) first mover advantage, so you have a tough road to walk with that.
June 13th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
As most of you pointed so many things –I just want to emphasize how correct the last para “Just to be absolutely clear: it’s not the $39 per month ………” is. Mr. Rand just killed the most amazing creation that could have effectively challenged the PR metric in the near future.
I would certainly club them with QBCs.
People tend to forget who make them great–and SEOMOZ forgot that its is those webmasters -that they are trying to exploit ( majority of webmasters won’t pay due to its seemingly endless problems) are the one that made this tool popular.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Really, I am sorry that we couldn’t make it fully available and free for everyone, and I agree that the popularity and reach of the tool will suffer because of that. However, if you read my post at DP, you’ll see that it’s nearly impossible for us to maintain the level of queries to grab data even for just the paid members, nevermind when it’s free. By limiting it to 1 free query per day, we can at least provide accurate reports around 60% of the time. When it was a free for all, the tool was barely at 10% accuracy… Which is worse?
Honestly – I wish I had 20K IP addresses to grab as much data as we wanted, but it’s just not possible. I do my very best to provide as much value in terms of free content as possible to the SEO community, and I hope you can judge us based on all of our contributions, not just this single issue.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:29 am
When someone offering something for free everyone is happy with it, but when its being charged its called a scam? I feel Rand did a nice thing from his point of view by limited the access to his tool in a day, but may be he should allow the update option for non registered members to 2 or 3 times so the tools stays famous for always which may get seomoz a lot of seo targetted traffic and increase their brand & business too.
Anyway the ball is in your hands rand – Limit the tool or give a 3 times update option / day tool.
Good Day
Amit
June 14th, 2007 at 2:32 am
Just could not resit this hillarious joke –that Aviva is now PS .5. Most probably Mr. Rand banned Aviva as none of its data is being pulled. While Amit is posting on DP -I am sharing it here– the URL is …
http://www.seomoz.org/page-strength/www.avivadirectory.com
Enjoy the JOKE :D
June 14th, 2007 at 2:42 am
All the community needs to do is elect a board of trusted members to evaluate what should facilitate a page strength tool. grabbing the results reliably is NOT a problem, and I don’t know why seomoz has so many problems. I was the first one to bitch about this, and I knew I wouldn’t be the last:
Directory Dump Website Stats
June 14th, 2007 at 2:43 am
@randfish – thanks for taking the time to add your viewpoint. I certainly don’t expect you to pay all of that out of your own pocket – it would be nice if there could be some sort of a public effort to fund the tool to keep it free.
Thanks also for the 60% stat – that seems to be similar to my experience.
And yes, your contributions to the SEO community are fabulous – thanks!
@John – I’m sure it’s just a bug with the tool. Either that or pigs were flying :-)
June 14th, 2007 at 2:44 am
it is absolutely sick that a so called respecitve site “Seomoz” has gone down to that level to display aviva’s ps to be 0.5
Jeff, you beat me to this post .. i swear i was talking to my friend about the samething and i was going to write a post about them. Because I emailed Matthew Imman and he replied saying its a paid tool though i will update your listing for you since you are not a paid member … and he did it (The result after the upgrade was even wrong than before)
which makes me ask why should i even pay when the admin can’t get the results to display right.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:55 am
@Rob C – cool tool!
June 14th, 2007 at 4:03 am
I have never liked this tool because it takes account of lot of deprecated factors as page strength factors. Its theory is not up to date.
June 14th, 2007 at 6:22 am
The tool shows me a 6.5 – and we would NEVER manually adjust someone’s score; it’s preposterous to suggest it.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I feel the whole QBC is being blown out of proportion, if one day I decide to switch a popular free web directory to a paid premium, or charge an annual listing fee were do I stand ?
It’s a business model and every one have their incentives for offering a free service, I guess we need to redefine the QBC term to undertand and distinguish between the real QBC and the targetted QBC.
SEOMoz have a legit reason and I see no harm in their actions.
Lets not talk about google, as we know what they have gained by keeping and hyping the PR. :-)
June 14th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
@ randfish – I said its a joke. Thanks for understanding and also –if you check on DP, – Jeff’s Post and Amit’s thread on DP has stirred the coding community to come up with something concrete that PS tool has been unable to provide.
I have been using Rob’s tool since he gave me the URL couple of month’s back and it never -ever for a single TRY – failed me pulling data of any site.( @ Rob- its little bit LIE though –your tool can not pull data of http://www.yourdomain.co.uk sites, hope you can get them soon).
So thanks Jeff and Randfish, hopefully we will have a more complete and reliable tool soon presented to us by the coding community. :D
June 18th, 2007 at 5:55 am
[…] With the recent shift to 1 free query a day of the seomoz pagestrength tool unless you pay the monthly fee, webmasters are looking for a new tool to gauge the strengths of a backlink from sites they are thinking of getting links from. One tool I came across recently is a backlink stat tool from directorydump web directory. This a free tool that checks not only backlinks and indexed pages from the major search engines but also gives you the: […]
June 28th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
[…] Rand Fishkin, owner of SEOmoz added to the blacklist on the Quick Buck Crew […]
June 29th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Well this is the problem with PageStregth.
1) It’s not theirs, meaning, it relies on data acquired from other sources. Google, Yahoo, Alexa……….. And auto querying Google is against their terms of service which they clearly outlined. Yahoo and Alexa could have similar guidelines.
2) The data sources which the Page strength tool queries, can change their api, restrict access or modify making it hard or impossible to send auto queries, making the tool jellyfish as it currently is.
After that there’s the cost of maintaining resources necessary to keep the tool up & running, which can cost a pretty penny.
etc, etc, etc.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
[…] After seeing this, and realizing the potential, Rand Fishkin and his SEOMOZ started to charge to use the tool that was once free for all. Now, normal users were limited to use the tool only once per day and unlimited usage was reserved for the Premium Members who could use it as much as they want. Coincidently or otherwise ( hint!) – the tool started to malfunction and most people were of the impression that Rand Fishkin was after money. It resulted into some detailed review of Page Strength tool and SEOMOZ on Digital Point Forum. Mr. Fishkin has been termed a Quicke Buck Crew (QBC), a new term introduced by Rob and Jeff started a debate on it on his blog. […]
July 26th, 2007 at 9:06 am
[…] Seomoz Rand Fishkin owner of a Seattle based search engine optimization company has been attacking the directory industry lately with his mild mannered antics. According to his statements at his White Board Friday Show, web directories are a waste of money that he gave an advice to one of his posters. So where does this all started ? How come Mr. Fishkin suddenly came out of the blue doing this outrageous attacks on web directory ? It all started on late May or early June when most of the directory owners were dissatisfied when Rand, without an announcement, made the tool from FREE to PAID. Its ok when something in advance should be announced after all he has made the tool free for some time already and announcing it would not be of much a difference since many people would really purchase it at a reasonable price. More story can be read Here. That tool by the way was popularized by Jeff Behrendt of Aviva Web Directory of his Strongest Directories List . Now let me ask you this, how many directory owners helped Mr. Fishkin popularized his SEOMOZ Tool Page. Does an average or normal website owner care about page strength of their website ? Is it right for Mr. Fishkin to attack the people who have helped him dearly promoting his tool ? […]
July 28th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
[…] Rand of SEOMoz attacks Jeff of Aviva Directory with a base less statement! In June Jeff wrote this post on his blog which made Rand out razed. The discussion was about the fact that should SEOMoz’s Page Strength tool be put in the Quick Busk Crew, this website lists the people who cheat, scam and do everything for money! […]
July 28th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Well Rand shouldn’t have make it paid after having so much help from all the webmasters he did something really bad. Rather he should have asked for sponsors for his tool then he could have got hundreds of sponsors to come and pay for the hosting and IP which he admits is the reason for making it paid!
And now he sues Aviva for non-authority on the basis of not ranking for title terms which is really very bad! We are having a very good discussion on the v7n forums about it!
July 29th, 2007 at 6:44 am
[…] Well there has been some issues in the past with Rand and Jeff(owner of Aviva directory), but pulling out something like this is really not a call by any reputed SEO of his class! […]
July 31st, 2007 at 11:12 am
PageStregth is a great tool.I setup a new directory http://www.totodirect.net and it really helps.If it is free it will gain popularity that is the way google page rank did.It is up to you what you want to do with it.
July 16th, 2008 at 2:02 am
[…] However, the page strength tool had a number of limitations and controversies surrounding it. To deal with some of these issues, today SEOMoz has released a new tool to evauate websites, the Trifecta. […]
October 27th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
[…] bit.ly Other notable link budding practices are directories. SEOmoz shows on both Business.com and Aviva. The difference is though that they don't have a common directory entry but instead in […]
October 27th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
[…] bit.ly Andra noterbara länk spirande praxis kataloger. SEOmoz visar på både Business.com och Aviva . Skillnaden är dock att de inte har en gemensam katalog post utan istället i redaktionella […]
October 28th, 2011 at 6:06 am
[…] bit.ly Other notable link budding practices are directories. SEOmoz shows on both Business.com and Aviva. The difference is though that they don't have a common directory entry but instead in […]
November 2nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I can’t find that tool.
November 3rd, 2011 at 11:37 am
Frankly, I do not see the problem. There are so many free online tools around, especially for PR/Alexa/… evaluations. And essentially all these tools go back to the same data sources: Yahoo, Google, Alexa.